Flakes Around the World

Wow Melissa, thanks so much for the awesome post. What an adventure you are having! I must say I feel like I can see just what you are seeing having lived in Africa for three years. I am sure Tanzania, Uganda, Kenya and South Africa are not as hectic as Nigeria but I am sure there are many similarities.

I am sad that Nigeria is so corrupt and unstable that you won't be able to move around with the same freedom that I did, I hope that you will be able to find a way to get out and see the sights and get some Nigerian friends. I predict by the end you are going to have the same love and passion for Africa that I do. I remember when I first walked around in Tanzania and saw the poverty and squalor I was very taken aback and scared by it - but you will get used to it and then when you come back to the US you will find us all so very materialistic.

One thing is to remember that the average Nigerian is a very nice person and not everyone would steal from you if given an opportunity, obviously you need to be super cautious but I have seen it happen often that whites form oversees are so consumed by their fear of the people that they are never able to break free of that. They miss out on the opportunity of trying to relate and understand the people, and gain a love for them. The other thing is that people can always tell if you are scared and if that comes through you are a lot more likely to be targeted. If you are friendly and relaxed you will find everything much brighter for you. In fact you will see that Africans tend to put Americans on a pedestal and treat them with a lot of respect.


We love you guys!

Ally

What a crazy adventure Levin and Melissa are having. I'm anxious to hear how your first church experience goes there. It's so awesome that you have Oliver and Amber to compare notes with. I feel like I can relate too. Moscow can be pretty scary sometimes. I actually have called the police one time. We got a prank call on our answering machine, at 1:00 A.M. from a girl saying she was a stripper and we have something of hers and if we don't give it back she is going to come over and hurt us. It really freaked us out. So we can really identify with what you are going through :)
We look forward to Dad's visit next week!!
Lucinda

Melissa, We LOVE hearing the details of your experience there. It is a unique one! Keep posting! JaLayne

There are many similarities (plentiful street kids and disabled people begging with faces against OUR Suburban window, CLO trips, RSO trainings, awful, almost useless grocery stores with overpriced, super-expired food, restaurants that become peaceful havens, people using public areas for toilets (ewww... I must see that 50 times a day!). Levin sounds like he's trying to convince everyone (including himself) that he isn't crazy with a capital "C" for accepting this post! The security stuff is out of my realm of expertise. Brasil had plenty of crime in the bigger cities, but it didn't really affect us. We have safe rooms, but nothing as elaborate as what you described. I hope you can network with some of the other ladies and try to figure out how to get out on a regular basis, and how to do some service. Check the Embassy for a Women's Club. Nearly every embassy has one, and one of the main objectives of them is to do service (and to socialize, so either way, you'll get something out of it.) Talk to your CLO. If there is anything you can't get, that you are just dying for, there are lots of places to shop for grocery items online, often with free shipping. Let me know if you need any websites for that. I promise that things will be fine, and eventually you'll learn to tolerate some of the strangeness, even if you really can't get used to it all. Who wants to get used to seeing people use the bathroom in public... ewwww, not me.
Amber

This is Melissa by the way:
So yesterday Lincoln calls and Levin tells him, "no there is no culture shock." No culture shock my eye! But, I have officially been "out and about" more than Levin. He's not had some African kid selling something plaster his face next to you on teh window of the armored Surburban shouting at you that you need some of his water. And he missed the guy defecating in teh water this morning - I didn't. Well, I don't KNOW that's what he was doing, but what else would a guy be doing crouched down with his rear on the edge of the dock and his pants pulled down. I do have to remember that I am new to this world experience things and the Flakes are not, but there is some culture shock for me.

First, we did talk to someone about church. Thanks Mom Flake for getting us the phone number to the mission president. He knew it was me right when I called and he got me two phone numbers - a name I couldn't pronouce and a man named Gary from Texas. Guess which one I called. He seems really nice and thinks he and his driver can swing a way to get us to church though we may have to spend all day at the building while he has his meetings. We talked to him again last night where Levin actually talked to him and found our more details: There are 4 expat families - all the rest are Nigerians. There are 500 on the records with about 150 in attendance and 5 cars total (not counting expats) and every time they go to the temple in Ghana many members get robbed. He said to keep a journal because this will be heartbreaking and wonderful. We are so excited to go to church on Sunday. This will be an experience. Brother Leuder has spent many years here (two different trips) and is leaving in 6 months. He does oil if you coudln't guess from the fact that he is from Texas.

The shopping trip I had yesterday was fun and it was great to talk to other wives who can relate to how things have been, but they were optimistic and told me I'll be fine. We had fun together and with 5 of us things felt pretty safe. The fancy restaurant Levin referenced smelled so nice - like Chocolate! I think it can be a piece of heaven in Lagos. The chocolate didn't actually TASTE that good, but the clean smell was worth it. The food was great! The mall is expensive, but okay. I felt really safe there and like I could actually walk to the restroom while leaving the other ladies in another store. The grocery stores (we went to two, Shoprite and Goody's) were small and Shoprite (South African so Moema and Allyson might recognize) was pretty crowded and I hear will be much worse on Sat. when Levin and I go back. Some things were ridulous, like $7 for spaghetti sauce. Luckily that is available at the commissary for $3.50 and we did ship over a case of that. Of course who knows when that will arrive. Our neighbors just got their HHE and it was 9 months! But they said theirs was a special case - but I never ot the full story on what that special case was. We went to a Colours of Africa and it was obviously a shop for rich oil wives. Everything was home decor of African stuff and expensive!

What I didn't do was the outdoor market which is on the agenda for the CLO's shopping trip on Sat. Which right now might be just me and Levin. I guess I shouldn't say sponsored I should say organized because we will pay the motor pool's fee for the day and if it's just us we foot the whole bill, but that'll be fine because then we don't have to wait on anyone else.

Amber, I am a little jealous of your orphanage work. We were really hoping i could find something like that here, but right now the odds look pretty slim because it is not safe for me to go out. Even if I get a job at the American school I'd have to ride the school bus, not drive there because it's not safe. Pretty much it's compound to GQ (and only then with another girl with you) and then you can take the boat to the Consulate. Everything else is pretty restricted. But, we are hoping that something else will present itself and maybe there will be a way to do service here.

Oh, the last two mornings (but not today) we woke up to people singing. I'll be honest it kind of freaked me out a little as does looking at the people over our compound wall and hoping they don't see me staring back at them.

Well, I think that is all I have to report for now.

We will try to star taking pictures, but as I don't know if we can post them until we get the internet at our house. I just took the State Dept. computer test which informed me I couldn't bring a personal thumb drive or any other personal item and connect it to their computers so it might be a while before we can upload pictures.

We are having a fun time and can't get to sleep at night because we are telling each other every detail of our day - there is just so much to say and talk about. Although we brag about all our AFN channels we never watch them because I talk to much and am jabbering on and on about what Adi told me (the FAS drive that I had a GREAT time talking to while he drove me in for our RSO training two days ago). Levin doesn't even ever remember his name so he gets a bit tired of hearing about him. Of course the RSO training scared me so bad it kind of damaged my great time learning Adi's native language and learning about his Mercedes. Levin's trip to Tunis was post-poned and I can't say I mind a bit, it means I have him one month longer before I spend a night alone in our upstairs locked in hoping I don't have to radio the marines - or almost as bad accidentally lock myself up there like I did for 5 minutes the other day. Talk about panic room! I had no idea how I'd get out or how I'd call since my cell phone was downstairs and we have no landline other than an intercom to the other town houses and guards and even that only has lines downstairs. Luckily I finally figured out how to unlock it. It's a very tricky lock and I felt much better when I found out 2 of the other women have had similar experiences.

Love,
Melissa

Have you ever seen such beautiful grandchildren? You are making me homesick for those two little boys Lincoln and Siobhan. I printed out the pictures from India and took it to my mother. She was so excited she kept the page and is taking it to Relief Society on Sunday to share with her ward. Grandma passed out for 30 minutes out in her yard with no one around the other day. I hope it isn't serious but I am making her go to the doctor. I canned peaches for her today.

Hey, I'm jealous of your home, and I don't even live there! That's the way it always goes you know.... small families getting the really big homes, and huge families somehow end up getting the only sort of huge homes! Luckily since you have very little to do with the selection process, nobody can really blame you! I'm glad you guys have such a big place so that we can feel less guilty about eventually invading it! And Melissa, you deserve every perk you can get for spending the start of your marriage in Nigeria! It sounds like you guys have some additional worries that luckily we don't have to deal with. India looks a little scary, but is pretty safe. Do you know anything about where you will go to church? Met any members from the Embassy? The first few weeks are sort of "survival mode" crossed with "honeymoon period." I hope you guys are doing well.
Amber

So I am at work and Melissa is out on the town on a trip with the other wives to go shopping at some Nigerian stores and go to some expensive French cafe. Of course they are traveling in an armored car. One cool thing here is I guess if you go out of town you pay for 2 Nigerian police offiercers with AK-47s to accompany you. SWEET! Actually, our house is so nice that we could be living in hell and still be content. Everyone is jelous we got it, I cant belive my boss swong it.

We are going to a crazy outdoor market on Saturday and I will try to take pictures. Call us if you get a chance

Levin

Wow Amber, those pictures were incredible. There is no way to look at them and read your description without tears coming to my eyes. That picture of Ryan in the midst of those children was beyond amazing. Did God take you to that country to relieve the poor and needy? You have to be feeling His love for what you are doing. Talk about meaningful! It makes my life seem worthless and selfish. Thank you from all of us for doing what you are doing. Love Mom We heard from Levin and Melissa. They have a phone now on th list Dad sent you all. They say their house is huge and they are being well taken care of.

We visited the other orphanage today. Nice lady named Anjina takes care of 32 children. There are 9 boys, and the rest are girls, aged 18 months to about 17, and one older boy who is disabled. It seemed like most of the kids were around 10. They get most of their kids from the police, who find them abandoned. Anjina was really excited because 2 of the girls who were raised in the home are coming back to be married there! It is a really big deal for all of the kids. They are trying to fix up the house for the wedding. We are arranging for some of the youth to go and paint the rooms because the walls are nasty and have not bee painted in years. They also run 2 schools, one for orphans, and the other for village children who are too poor to afford to go to school. They need some desks and benches. We are going to try to get some for them with the family fund. They also have a few cows they use for milk for the children - the yield (they just feed straw) is terrible so we are also going to buy some real feed for the cows.

I have been collecting toys and clothes from friends, and we filled the Suburban with all the stuff and brought it over. I think when I said that I was bringing over some boxes, they were expecting one or 2. They seemed shocked when we brought a whole big carload! Natalya had fun playing with the kids and Ryan was a hit with them as usual!

I can see Lincoln is self-destructing, so the only thing I'll add is a parting observation: the Flakes' knack for typographical errors is only exceeded by their penchant for hyperbole. True, Romney is no Abinadi or Paul, but is he really a Hitler or Stalin? (A Fidel Castro, maybe, as we've already seen.)

Why all the argument about who to vote for. I mean if Hitler and Stalin were running I wouldn't feel the need to make the choice. And indeed they seemed to have more integrity than Romney who it seems would sell his soul for a vote. And Melissa, none of us actually plan to vote anyway, we just argue for the sake of arguing but are too lazy to get out of our chairs and go vote.


Moema says he is voting for Obama so he can REPRESENT! Despite Obama recently being rejected by the African American caucus, it seemed he fell below Bill Clinton on the Black-o-meter.

Here is a another topic, what about poor Michalel Vick, am I the only one who feels sorry for him. I mean if he had murdered his wife and son then committed suiced like the dumb wresterler guy the press would label him a hero and victim of steriods ---but Vick who I am sure is similarly burdended by drug abuse gets no such treatment because American has begun its decline into degenercy---like Europe we too now care more about (viscious) animals than human beings.

 
 
 

Lincoln, I cant argue with your statement because I don't know what the heck you are talking about - Casablanca? Sure McCain is no saint but who of us has not considered if we would leave our wife if she was in a horrible accident. I suppose unless you are an absolutaly a perfect person you cant run for public office - by that reasoning not even Martin Van Buren himself could run for office. Why I am arguing with you I thought I was in agreement and defending you earlier. See your blogs are so obnoxious that even your supporters argue with you.
P.S. Mom, the boys sat there one foot from her and watched Natalya chop her hair off - if that is not a reason for capital punishment then I don't know what is. P.S. she was also stark naked at the time (obviously they are too involved in TV and need a time out from it). And since when is a little resentment a bad thing?

Oliver

I can’t respond to your Kobe Bryant example because I’ve never seen Casablanca. I will take your refusal to argue the points raised as a surrender flag and signal you are giving up. Heaven forbid we liken the scriptures to ourselves. Oliver about McCain. There is a little fact you don’t know about McCain. He was married to a women for 12 years, six of which she faithfully waited for him whilst he was a prisoner. They had children together. He finally comes home from Vietnam and a month later she gets in a terrible car accident. Whilst she is still rehabilitanting, he meets and runs off with another lady from a rich family. Marries her and her family finances his entire political career, never talks to the first wife again. Moral pragmatism . . . David and Taylor?

The Romney arugment is really moot, sense the loser will never win the primaries.

jalayne next time your at your mother-in-laws house make sure to gather up all her bibles and tear out, John Chapters. 3-5, 7-12 20-21, Mark 2-5, Luke 1-3, 5-7, 12-56, and every episltle of Paul. In the Book of Mormon be sure to rip out King B's spech, 3 nephi Ch. 12-23, DandC Sec, 7, 22, 34-68. If they happen to have teachings of Joseph Smith, best burn it. Anything by Farrar needs to be tossed.

Amber, Lucinda did the same thing when she was younger. It is depressing, but it looks okay and it certainly could have been a lot worse. By the time we see her, it will look great again. JaL

That isn't as bad as I pictured it from your description of the haircut. I think you are building resentment from the boys to Natalya - she did something bad and they get punished. Hey, you can see her beautiful eyes. Thanks for the phone call. For anyone trying to call Oliver and Amber, their phone doesn't work for now. Love Mom

Well, Natalya has done what I knew she eventually would... she's chopped off her hair. Just yesterday I was telling myself how cute her hair was looking, and as if to knock down my excessive pride... today she cut it. The worst thing was that her 3 big brothers were sitting right there watching TV while she was running around with scissors (she got a dining room chair and got the scissors from the kitchen cupboard). They were so engrossed in their show that they didn't say anything! They are grounded from the TV for the next 2 weekends! Since they only get tv on Saturdays, they are pretty distraught by the punishment. Oh well. It'll grow back.

Since I am the only one in the family to meet and spend days with over a dozen Senators (not to mention chating with Pres. Bush) I feel the most qualified to tell everyone who to vote for. I tell you the man is McCain. Not only is he from the great state of Arizona but he has serious character. I once heard him tell a group of Iowa farmers that Ethanol is a bad idea - thats like telling PETA folks that dog fighting should be an olymipic sport. I disagree with many of his views and he is not a hard core conservative like I would like but I trust him more than Mitt. Besides, anyone that was beaten by the Vietnamese for 6 years should should be awarded the presidency automatically. The very thought of agreeing with Lincoln and Levin makes me nausious and Lincolns biblical analogies are crazy as always (Taylor is right on the Kobe Bryant comparison of Lincoln). However, Mitt is just too calculating for me and anyone that uses the F-word does not get me vote (the A.. and Sh.. words are Ok in my book). I must admit my stance is partially influenced by my disdain for David and not wanting to agree with him. I can see how he would be anti-ethics. Remember this is the guy that sensors blogs to suit his needs and calauslly cheats at Risk and that basketball game in his basement. I think the light in their basement not only affects the scoreboard of their b-ball game but Davids thinking as well.
One more thing on Mitt and this is true - while on the board at Marriott he actually voted to put the porn channel guide in the front cover of the book of Mormon in each hotel room. The marketing angle was "get your sin and repentance at Marriott rooms". Finally, if anyone is thinking of voting for Mit you should know that Uncle Lawarence likes him - that should change your mind.

Jalayne, I'm rich. Can you edit Lincoln's class warfare bloggs so I am not offended?

I will make this quick since I am on the train to Chicago for a Daddy daughter date with Alyssa and am writing this on my blackberry. We have been watching Inherit the Wind on our portable DVD and let me saythat I think Lincoln would make a great modern day William Jennings Bryant. Jumping from the sess pool of modern politics to Abinadi and Steven, now that is out there. I will give you that Mitt boy does not measure up to those guys.

David's point is still unrefuted, if not Mitt then who? If only there was some wacko like Ron Paul with no chance of winning that we could all throw our support behind.

Let me make clear, I didn't edit the actual blog. I emailed certain portions to Sister Grow. In one e-mail Lincoln makes derogatory reference to rich people. Since the Grows are rich, I didn't want to hurt their feelings. The blog is safe in my hands. JaLayne

Levin’s and especially Dad’s emails were so INSIGHTFUL and spot on. (by way of advise Taylor, its best to compliant not attack your supporters)

Taylor, all your friends have abandoned you! David is defecting, Oliver will surely come to my side considering the great change of heart he is going through living with untouchables of India and Dad who has slanted liberal on some issues in the past, is now squarely on my side with his last email. (very well put, dad)

I knew my words would find place in David’s heart, indeed they are warring inside him. I respect you David for admitting the wrestle you are having with this issue and others I have addressed on the blog. I can show you the path, David, but you have to walk down it yourself.

Another note of Extreme import - The ugly-double-headed censure monster has arisen again. Jalayne STOP editing my blogs, I won’t stand for this! She has been deleting certain parts of my messages, or as she says sanitizing them.

Melissa and Mom, I will tell you who to vote for – Fred Thompson. He is more conservative than Romney and is a very very good guy. I will expound more on this on Monday. The war issue makes the choice extremely messy. Do you vote for an abortionist who will have very little impact of actual abortion policy or do you vote for a pro-war republican. The moral black and white line is not really clear here. I’ve always said that the abortion issue is a showstopper, ie that I could never morally vote for a pro-abortion candidate. But now with the republicans supporting the war, I don’t know now.

Mom. I agree with you, the US has an unhealthy monopoly on pornography which needs to be broken. Diversification is essential.

Again David, all your points are good and I don’t want to scare away the only in-law brave enough ( or is it stupid enough) to stray into the blog minefield. However your denunciation of my Romney ambassador thing was waaaaaaaaaay off. A Mormon Romney as President of the United States would not be a de facto ambassador for the Church?

All of the arguments have been both eloquent and insightful but the "best line" goes to Taylor in backstabbing his co-conspirator, David, with the assertion that he has an advantage, "have been professionally trained in sophistry". DAD

I wish I could vehemently disagree with all the Romney-haters as to the strength of his moral character, in order to keep this debate lively, but I can't. His moral character is probably about as "high" as any of the other major candidates, but he's obviously not in Abinadi's league. That's why he makes some of us queasy, but again, that wasn't my point.

What does that leave? Two things: (1) Lincoln's argument that a President Romney would damage the church, and (2) Levin's implicit argument that he would be a bad president. My response: (1) That's a valid and natural concern, but in my opinion the church has taken the appropriate precautions to avoid any serious damage to its credibility. The church isn't holding Romney out as its ambassador, and neither is Romney. Frankly, I think the increased attention on the church because of his candidacy is healthy, though painful at times. It's kind of like Mountain Meadows. Yes, a few Mormons have done some bad things, but it's not as if the massacre has somehow put a cloud over Mormon hist- ... um, moving right along, (2) I think Levin is propounding the view that what you DO is more important than what you SAY. On that count, I'm not convinced that any other major candidate will DO more good for the country than Romney. Which leads me back to my original point, which was not an espousal of moral pragmatism but of political pragmatism, in the interest of moral ends: who WILL you vote for? Sounds like the women are lining up behind Hillary. Are we men gonna stand for that? Let's just all concentrate our votes on an agreed-upon male candidate. - David

I am with Melissa. If we aren't going to vote for Romney, what choice do we have. I have listened to all your arguments and wonder which candidate you will vote for. Anyway, yesterday I went to Education Week and learned about the spread of pornography over the earth. It is the scourge of the last days. Did you know that there are 65,000 porn sites in the world and 84% of them are produced in the US? With that cheery note, I will say, have a nice day! Mom

At the risk of "piling on" my beleaguered and much-maligned eldest son and eldest son-in-law, I feel compelled to respond to this debate. Some good can be said of Romney, and Taylor and David have presented sound and compelling arguments favoring his election, HOWEVER, once in a while, you find a window to the soul of a person and thereby views his core essence. In the case of Romney that view is both sobering and frightening. To wit: As a board member of the Marriott Corporation he sat silent on the issue of allowing hard-core porn in it's hotel rooms. He didn't say, "I can't be a party to this", or "Let the record show that I strenuously object to this policy". No. He didn't even have the honesty to admit his involvement or tacit approval. Instead he insults our intelligence with the lame explanation that he doesn't recall the subject ever being raised. So, we are to believe that he has no recollection of a discussion of the most serious public relations issue in the company's history? What a lier and spineless coward! If he doesn't have a corrupt inner core, it is at least very soft. Where is the courage and integrity we expect of a Priesthood bearer - much less a national leader? I love this classic defense of his action, or rather inaction, by a Marriott spokesman, "It certainly would have been wrong of him to impose his own personal beliefs if they were contrary to the financial interests of the company". That's beautiful! He was a "rubber stamp" as a board member and not a "moral compass". It's not that he's so bad, it's that he's such a huge disappointment.
DAD

It's great to have Melissa's insight and humor on the blog. Jump in, Shelley and Siobhan. Jump back in, Amber.

So Levin panics every time I get on the blog wondering how I will embarrass him. I think that last setence probably just did. :)

But, I want to go back to David's quesiton of "who will you vote for?" I know this is a debate on Romney, but I need help deciding who to vote for because right now I'm voting for Hillary and Levin said he'll just vote against her and cancel my vote. SO to save our marriage we need people to suggest who I should vote for. Just kidding - our marriage doesn't rest on politics, but I am interested to hear who people are going to vote for if not Romney.

I just called Levin to see if this posting would embarass him, but he didn't answer his phone, his mistake.

For the first time in our lives Levin is at work while I am not! My last day was Wednesday!

Melissa

"I believe that abortion should be safe and legal in this country."
"We should sustain and support [Roe v. Wade] and the right of a woman to make that choice."
"You will not see me wavering on that."

Those are all comments made by Romney regarding abortion when he was running for the senate. SO David, pro-choice IS a very accurate representation of his stance. Pro-choice does not mean that you really WANT women to have abortions (most people, even terrible people, hate abortions), it is that you think it should be free and legal to choose whether to kill your unborn child. And that was his stance. So either 1) he was lying back then just to get elected, or 2) he has changed his stance.

1) Well if it is the first then I dont know what Taylors definition of high moral character is if it does not include INTEGRITY. There is a lot more to high moral character then just not cheating on your wife. Honesty and standing for whats right is just as important to me in an elected offical as is not changing your views with whatever way the wind blows - which he obviously has a problem with. He reminds me of Al Gore in one major way. Al Gore always use to lie, a lot, whether it be about working on a Tobacco farm or his mother singing to him Teamster songs before they were even written or inventing the internet. But he did these not because he was bad, but he did it just because he wanted to please the audience he was speaking to. Romney has this same streak in a major way. The exaggerated hunting story where Romney told people he was a life long hunter when he had only gone twice as a kid, is one humorous example of the larger issue of what Romney has - he tells people what they want to hear and not what he stand for or what is the truth! He to me is NOT trustworthy in this regard.

2) And if it is the second option, that he really has changed, then I say what has he DONE to show it, other than pander to some right wing conservatives and tell them what they want to hear to get the nomination. If we cant look at someones history, then what can we look at. After Bush's presidency, I dont like the words, "Trust Me"! at all. But that is what olde Mitt is telling us, "Just trust me, I am not that guy I use to be. I really have changed. Not only have my views changed but I now have the backbone to stick with those views even if they begin to hurt me politically" Well I don't trust that if he gets elected president he will care more about doing whats right then his poll ratings or getting re-elected

Well it is my last day at work. See ya!

Levin

Allyson’s short response revealed the emptiness of Taylor and David’s. I dare you to visit the Christian catacombs in Rome and Asia Minor and then tell me that Mitt with his ‘moral pragmatism’ would have suffered there with the likes of Peter and Mark. Go to the slums of New Delhi and use your ‘moral relativism’ Taylor, to square those slums, Christ’s New Testament teachings and Mitt’s 200 million dollar houses. Stand in Jerusalem where Steven, half way through his historic speech surrounded by stone-holding Jews, decided that in instead of ‘pragmatically’ toning down his rhetoric, he would bare a majestic testimony of Christ’s mosaic-breaking message, knowing full well that it would cost him his life. If you can stretch this ‘moral pragmatism’ to cover Mitt’s statements like “I will support women choice of abortion more than Sen. Kennedy”, then the elasticity of your moral relativism has no bounds.

I can’t believe you two are using the concept of moral pragmatism. To an orthodox Christian that should be a contradiction in terms. (Remember the I’m a true blue Mormon through and through story?).Thank goodness Abanidi in front of King Noah was ignorant of that concept or that the idea of ‘moral relativism’ did not come to Paul in Ephesus. A man of high moral character, did you say Taylor? He is a poster boy for the moral corrupt super rich of this church. By the way, 5 consistent years of supporting purely anti-gospel principles and then turning a complete u-turn on every issue – goes a little beyond flip-flopper.

David, your points are good, but I think we misunderstand each other. I am not talking about the good of society but the good of the church. And this is where your Bush analogy is so germane. Mitt will do to the church precisely what Bush did to social conservatism – totally discredited. Your Abe Lincoln example was insightful to be sure, and I do not accuse you of protecting some clandestine ideological territory, but you fail to understand that every single public action Mitt has done has one common tread (from making his fortune by closing down factories and firing people, to betraying Mormon values by saying his sons are serving his country better by helping him get elected vice serving in Iraq) That one common tread is that he will do and say anything for himself and his own personal gain. He already has a track record of crucifying his values for the slightest political leverage. Is that the type of ambassador we want for the Church?

Well said david, well said. We are getting so excited to see you guys. We are going to snorkel and body board and eat pineapple like it is going out of style. Levin you will be sad to know that we found a place that sells pineapple for $2 each, and it is so good!

I guess I will brag on my husband a little he got straight A's again, this is in Accounting and Shakespeare. He has only gotten one B+ so far, in religion of course, and from the blind professor Cowan! i think he was racist. But Moema is taking 18 credits next semester and working so he will be busy. He works as an accounting clerk for BYU H and got called to be the Financial ward clerk for our ward.

My job is going well and I am learning all the ins and outs of the construction world and I am offically a notary! I am nearing my 25th birthday so I will be three years older than moema for a few months.

We only got $1000 this year for pellgrants, oh well. And we will most definitly be staying until June. I really need to know if we are going to do this reunion thing or not. someone respond.

Amber, I am so jealous of your Instanbul trip, not to mention europe! YOu look hot in those photos by the way. Do you still use the same email brasialaflakess.... cause I emailed you but never heard back. We are thinking that if the reunion doesn't happen we will come to india in june, I know it will be hot though.
Pictures will follow.

ally

Well Done David! A much better response than I could have offered. But then you have been professional trained in sophistry. Lincoln if only you had followed you name sake's sense of common sense and pragmatism we could have all save a lot of time trying to talk you off these irrational cliffs.

I personally think the only thing wrong with Romney is that he is a Mormon and since I fancy myself a non conformist I hate jumping on a ban wagon that every other Utah Mormon. I think if he were not a member I would be a bigger supporter. A man of high moral character who has brains and has actually accomplished something in life. I think we are all paying the price for electing a leader that is a plain spoken, non-political moron. This is all an academic exercise since we know the Democrats will win but I do think he is the best leader in the group and doesn't come with any morale baggage. I do make a distinction between flip flopping to get elected which everyone does and cheating on your wife as most of the rest of the Republicans have done.

The one piece of Lincoln's lame argument that is a little interesting is his accusation of turning on the church. I have not really seen that. Do share examples. I'm sorry this quote in 60 min is pretty weak, "They were trying to build a generation out there in the desert. And so he took additional wives as he was told to do. And I must admit I can’t imagine anything more awful than polygamy." The way the church has distanced itself for this practice I wouldn't have been surprised to hear this quote from President Hinkley himself.

I wasn't arguing that it's okay for Romney to make statements that are "pro-choice" to get elected. For one thing, I'm not even sure if that's an accurate characterization. I wouldn't call Lincoln's statement "pro-slavery," though of course the abolitionists would. My point is that we should cast our vote in whatever way is most likely to do our society good - even if it means voting for a Mormon that makes us queasy. I'm not saying Romney is necessarily the best choice, but I'm having a hard time identifying a better alternative. Besides having come out of the closet as a moral conservative, he may be more competent on the issues than any other major candidate. If the early Christians in a place like Athens were faced with a similar scenario, I would give them similar advice. I never said anything about denying the faith to avoid death - that's much too unpleasant! - David

David's views are his own and do not represent the collective David Grow family. If Hillary will get us out of Iraq, she's my man. JaL

I disagree with the whole argument that it was okay for Romney to make some pro-choice statements so he could get elected. Isn't that the definiton of integrity, sticking to his beliefs despite the consequences. Should the early Chrisitians have denied being Chrisitian to avoid death and the perhpas gain more converts? No.

And all you Romney haters will vote for ......? Giuliani?? I'm a pragmatist with ideals. Lincoln and his ilk are idealists without an ounce of, uh ... pragma.

Abraham Lincoln vowed to protect the institution of slavery under the law. Sen. Sumner and other rabid abolitionists didn't take kindly to that, probably feeling that Lincoln lacked any "moral center." But who was more effective in ending slavery? Romney pledged not to interfere with abortion laws in Massachussetts, and of course he never would have been elected Governor otherwise. But as Governor, every practical decision he made was pro-life. That's more good than a Sam Brownback or Mike Huckabee could have done, because they never would have been elected.

It would be nice for a number of reasons if Romney weren't Mormon. It would be nice if we could all be purists outwardly as well as inwardly. (I'm personally never going to run for office for that reason - I choose to be the same person on the outside as on the inside: bad.) But I don't think I should rule out a candidate just because he's outwardly moderate enough to get elected and also happens to be a Mormon. The real question is whether each of us will use our vote in calculation of the most good it will do in our society, instead of just using it to make a statement. Sometimes that amounts to the same thing, but not always.

If the purists want some fodder for more invectives against moderate thinking, there's plenty here - http://pewforum.org/events/?EventID=148 - compliments of your friend Bushman.

We loved your most recent Dvd and are excited for a new one. It is fun to see your kids growing up. The kids always watch it before church on Sunday. Ryan so cute. It is fun to see the kids. We are getting EXCITED for our TRIP!!!

Of course I took hundreds, but I tried to restrain myself, and these all have people in them except for the last one of the Blue Mosque.

The first one is of us in front of the view across the Bosphorus into Asia. We were at Topkapi Palace. They had this huge diamond the size of my fist that someone threw out hundreds of years ago, because they thought it was fake. A street cleaner found it and somehow the sultan of the time ended up with it.

The second one is of the tour guide I hired to show me Aya Sophia. He was very knowledgeable, but a little crazy, and he totally convinced this poor fellow next to the stroller that Ryan was a prince. The guy went nuts and took all these pictures. The farce went on for seriously 5 minutes. They asked me after all this excitement where he was a prince, and I couldn't lie, so the poor guys really felt sheepish.

Third picture is of us in front of the Blue Mosque. It was so hot and humid, I felt like I was still in India. But all in all, not a bad way to spend a 10 hour layover!

I have more pictures from England, but Lincoln already sent some. I'm working on a DVD, so you can be bored by the whole array at a later date.

Hurrah for us! Actually, Devin did the Main Summit (11,928 ft) and your mother and I settled for the North Summit (11,172 ft). But I've done the Main Summit three times before and am going to take some of our ward youth and leaders up it on Sept. 15th. DAD

I agree 100% with Lincoln, Romney creeps me out and I hate that he feels the need to attack the other candidates. How can you possibly have a testimony and really support abortion, I mean I just don't see how that is possible. HE has no integrity.

Melissa's liver test came back and all is okay so we are going to Nigeria together 100%!!! Yea...We fly out on Sunday!

I agree with Lincoln regarding Romney, I just dont feel like he is an honest person, he cares WAY too much about saying the perfect thing that people want to hear. He is trying to hard not to make a big mistake like his papa and it makes him sound very phoney. At least that is my take on it.

Ok, everyone seems to be waiting with trepidation for my remarks on Romney. Let it be known that I think the man is the biggest phony in politics; he makes John Kerry look like a pillar of moral stability and integrity. Yes, in politics all players are liars, hypocrites and self-promoters, I realize that. . but no one is worst than Romney. . . and he is a Mormon to boot! I could list here the long litany of offenses of his phoniness such as pushing hard porn as Marriot chairperson, his F-word tirade in Utah, critizing church polygamy past, supporting for years gay marriage, abortion on demand etc, etc . . you name it every issue the gospel teaches , he opposed as Mass. Governor. I could go on but I think it’s clear to everyone that Mit has no moral center what so ever. Please don’t rejoinder that all politicians are flip-floppers, because no one has done it more overtly than Romney. Remember my friends, Romney is currently a right-wing anti-abortionist only because he is in the republican primaries, who knows where he will go after that.

The man is a bold face liar. You might respond the at least he is a Mormon – your damn right he is (by name only to be sure) and that is precisely why we don’t what this sleaze-ball in power. Think of the tainted association the church would experience with Romney. He has proven many times he has no loyalty to anyone, anything, or any principle. And listen Taylor; there are Mormon politicians that have kept their integrity and respect in the church. Hatch and Bennet are self-promoting, rich arrogant politicians that I would never invite over for dinner, but nonetheless, they have not betrayed the church and sold their souls to the devil. I would vote for them. I don’t demand perfection in Mormon politicians, but Romney is so disgustingly repulsive to me and would be so injurious to the church by association that I loathe him and will never vote for him.

The REAL question here, my brothers and sisters, is not Romney’s phoniness, his moral corruption and gospel betrayal is self-evident to everyone. The real question here is why do YOU support him? I will tell you why you and that latent Romney-lover David subconsciously supports Romney. It’s because you are uncomfortable with being a peculiar people. You think with the rest of the world accommodation Utah mormons, if only Romney could become president then my faith won’t be so strange and people will like us and we don’t have to feel different from other people. Well I gots news for you, biblical prophecies are against you and inform us we will only get ‘weirder’ as time goes on and the church and the world will further separate. Get use to it. And a Romney presidency would only serve to emboldened the lightheaded, “we want to dress and act like the world’ socially-motivated, weak testimony element in the church which cares more about what the world not God thinks of them.

Amber, I don't have your email address, but SHelley said I should ask you for pictures of "Embassy events" so I can see how I'm supposed to dress up for things.

If you get a spare minute can you email some pics to
melissa_bagwell@yahoo.com?

Thanks!

Melissa

PS - that was a faked pose of me getting the football in front of Spencer, but don't think that I didn't take him a few times. :) Levin just forgot to mention that when he posted the pictures.

Our trip was so fun! Here are pictures

Lincoln you kids are so cute!!!! Wow. I can't wait to see them.

Dad and mom, is this family reunion really going to happen beacuse if so we are there, but if not we need to know cause we need to buy europe tickets.

We are doing great. Moema is working full time since Fall semester hasn't started. We are so excited to get JaLayne and David out here!

Ally

Oops how can I recall the title of that last blog? Her name is technically Melissa. We had a great time getting to know her. What a sharp girl -- our family is lucky to have her. Other than a few cat fights she seemed to hit it off well with Shelley. We traveled to the Lake Michigan cost for 3 hours with our screaming kids and she didn't lose it once.

Things have been very busy at work lately that I have not a chance to check the blogg. We are in the mist of a pretty major restructuring and I am overseeing the firing of about 20 managers. I am happy to say that my job is safe (the HR Manager always leaves one box on teh Org Chart for himself) and is in fact expanding. In addition to Michigan, Wisc and Minn I now have West Virginia, Kentucky and Pennsylvania about the double the number of locations and employees. I will be traveling a lot more -- I am off the Pittsburgh on Tuesday.

I agree with Lincoln, lets get a little more debate going on this thing. Although an honest critique of Mom and Dad's parenting style when they are reading the blogg is probably not the best place to start. I fully concur with my siblings in affirming that they did one heck of a job. Their tops with me.

My question to you Lincoln is, is there any modern Mormon politician that you approve of, or does that very fact politics requires compromise mean that seeking public office and being an upstanding member of the Church are incompatible?

Taylor "Mitt Supporter" Flake

Kids,
We are loving the blogs we're receiving. We're hoping for some more from Lincoln/Siobhan and from Amber re: her trip. We want a report of Oliver's experience this weekend with Elder Oaks and of Levin and Melissa's fun with Taylor and Shelley's family. Lincoln produced a GREAT DVD of his three years in Germany, which includes everybody else. It's real neat and everyone will want a copy to show their kids and to have for history. We also got David and JaLayne's family drama DVD. It was amazing and hilarious! I'm asking her to send a copy to every family. You and your kids will love it and hopefully be motivated to create your own for our family-wide "competition". I was talking to Moema yesterday about his grandiose plans for graduate school. I asked him how he was going to pay for it and he replied, "well, I do plan to play the "race card"". Why not? It's been good for $6,000.00 so far.
Love ya, DAD